Steve and I have made this suggestion earlier, but would it be possible for Finder Points to only be applicable within a certain timeframe? I enjoy making Finds and earning Supervotes, but I also want to read all the captions on a photo and give votes to those that deserve them (even if they have no previous votes). Unfortunately, if the votes are late, this is normally Finder Point suicide.
A timeframe could reconcile early Finder Point votes with late votes for those captions that have been missed but are deserving. Perhaps Finder Points could only apply for the first 24 hours after a photo, or a caption, is posted?
Not sure if there was a change following James’ suggestion, but I completely agree with what he says. It’d be nice to be able to vote for any deserving caption, including late ones, without thinking it’d affect finder votes - I think the system of finder votes potentially stops there being a true reflection of the funniest captions. So a period of 24 hours for finder votes, then being able to vote for any caption without an impact on the voter, would be better. (personally I forfeit finder votes anyway and just vote on captions I think are deserving, I think that probably would attract more newbies to the site if they put a caption on that was funny /witty and got a vote even if they haven’t got the best caption on the site… Yet).
Just to clarify, I’m not opposed to Finder Points. I think the system is a good one as it encourages people to vote early in a caption’s life, which is essential to the functionality of the site. In the past I’ve even suggested Finder Point rewards could include less altruistic options than Supervotes (such as bump/highlight perks for the Finder’s own captions).
The only problem with the system is that it depends heavily on Finds being made early, because later Finds just don’t get the same exposure and consequent votes. Competitors, even those that vote fairly, are obviously going to be more reluctant to vote early as it impacts on the exposure of their own captions.
Personally, I make a few early Finds, not many. But when I do they normally score well (which is in itself a testament to voting practice, as often they are of similar quality to late Finds I make that normally score poorly). The issue I have is that after making a few good early Finds I become reluctant to make late Finds as this will undoubtedly harm my Finder Points.
So that’s the basis for the suggestion that Finder Points only apply for the first 24 hours of a caption’s life. That way early Finds could earn Supervotes, without being impacted by late Finds given to previously missed but deserving captions.
As one who is usually in or near the top five for Finder points, I don’t feel the need for any reward other than seeing my name in the rankings. I find that I accumulate vast numbers of supervotes - when I notice that the total has become embarrassingly large I give some away*, but in fact I very rarely use them myself. And I have totally given up trying to “game” the Finder system; if somebody else has already voted for a caption I like, I still vote for it, and I am not champing at the bit when a new photo goes on line so that I can “Find” the best of the early captions. In fact, it seems that older captions for which I am the first voter often make their way up the list. I suspect that my sense of humour must be pretty similar to the majority, or that would not happen - people aren’t, after all, going to think “Oh, if Molly voted for it, it must be worth voting for”!!
*I have just checked, and to my amazement I have accumulated 524 supervotes. So anybody who can make good use of some of them, let me know and you can have some of the 500. I can’t imagine that I could ever need more than the remaining 24!
Kidding, I’m still surviving off the votes yourself and Karyn kindly gifted me a while back, and I’m trying to be more self sufficient moving forward. It’s a good incentive to make early Finds, and the more obscure captions that I tend to like definitely do better if found early
I was just voting, reading all the captions on a pic from a few days back, and as usual I found a good one that had slipped through unnoticed. But, I’ve had a few early Finds this week that are doing alright, and any late votes on zero rated captions normally harm Finder Points.
This situation sucks, and it happens quite regularly for me. It comes down to, collect Finder Points but don’t vote late for zero rated captions, or, ignore Finder Points and vote for all deserving captions. I normally do the latter, but I’d prefer to be able to do both. Stopping new Finds after 48 hours would allow this.
I know people who only vote early will say if I do the same there wouldn’t be a problem, and they’d be right. But I like to read all the captions on any given photo, and give every one consideration, which is best done late and takes time. Also, I read captions chronologically and don’t let other votes influence mine, so I’d like to think even if I do vote late, I vote fairly.
However, if I’m trying to preserve Finder Points, then I have to ignore zero rated captions, which I don’t think is right. This could be solved if late votes on zero rated captions weren’t counted as Finds.
As far as downsides go, I doubt anyone who would stoop to deliberate zero rated voting for tactical purposes would give a toss about earning Finder Points, but if anybody can think of other negatives please comment.
I believe Finder Points were introduced to encourage prompt voting. The reason prompt voting is desirable is to keep the vibrancy of the live game and to stop the game stagnating and, If memory serves my correctly, a late found caption which receives further votes incurs no penalty.
I have never given a fig for collecting Finder points. I vote for what I like. I take care to read late entries because there are alerts for those. I simply vote promptly to save the game from stagnation. We’ve had it in the past where no one has voted over an hour into a game. It was bloody boring and so I had to start voting and now I have a sack full of finder points.
I do feel sad for worthy captions which miss the early votes but the best way to avoid this is to have more early voters. So we need to be thinking of ways to encourage this. I also applaud your desire to earn your own Finder points, James, but you see, making people think twice about their finder points is a way to keep the voting standard high.
Anything which may encourage late voting gets a thumb’s down from me.
I hear you, Vivvy, and I do try to make early Finds as well. It’s just with the way I vote, uninfluenced by others, it makes no difference at all to me if I vote early or late. The only difference it makes is how it influences others. And, to be honest, I don’t think that should be such a sacred thing. I’d actually prefer everyone to vote for the captions they themselves consider worthy, without being influenced by other’s opinions.
Anyhoo, closing new Finds after 48 hours wouldn’t necessarily encourage late voting, it would just allow people to vote for zero rated captions without sacrificing the Finder Points they may have earnt from early votes. I’d rather that than having people not voting for worthy captions just to preserve Finder Points.
Finder Points are just one small aspect of caption.me and they exist to encourage prompt voting. My issue with tweaking the system is that it makes the site even more complex, and it diminishes the purpose of Finder Points.
I know this will be frustrating to people outside the U.K. timezone, who will find it very difficult to accumulate Finder Points. This is definitely a problem I want to resolve.
The proposed Cohorts system will allow for people around the world to be grouped with others on their continent/hemisphere and then the timing of the featured photos can be set appropriately for their cohort.
I wouldn’t want to divide the current membership of the site, though, so I would ensure that people could be members of multiple cohorts.
James, currently because Finder points are calculated Sat at midnight it means on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday any captions created before Sunday that are on zero can be given votes without them affecting your Finder score.
This will change however when Chris changes the system to calculate Finder points on each photo after 3 days so that the Finder’s scoreboard is updated three times a day giving a live feel.
Personally when Chris makes this change, I think Finder’s points on each photo could be calculated at the 48 hour point after photo reveal just as James suggests. This would have three benefits:
an even more dynamic Finder’s scoreboard as scores from Finds would be added to the scoreboard just 2 days after photo reveal
votes placed 48-72hours after photo reveal would not affect someone’s Finders score.
good captions that go unnoticed would have a much better chance of receiving a few votes
I can’t see any disadvantage as people after Finders points will continue to vote early for good captions.
Appreciated, mate, but personally I reckon it would have little to no negative impact on Finder Points. Those who are trying to gain Finder Points vote early, and, presumably, refrain from voting for zero rated captions late. Likewise, those who vote for zero rated captions late aren’t hunting Finder Points, they’re (hopefully) just voting for captions they think deserve a vote.
Anyhoo, it’s no major drama. I think, ethically, voting for worthy captions has to outweigh any Finder Point considerations, so I’ll continue to do that and just go bludging off Molly or Karyn when I need Supervotes
Thanks, Steve, but this wasn’t actually what I was suggesting. A fair few votes come in the last 24 hours (especially on existing Finds), and I wouldn’t want to deprive Finders of these.
My suggestion was just that votes placed after 48 hours on zero rated captions aren’t considered Finds (my title of this thread was poorly chosen and I can see how it caused confusion).
Don’t forget James that currently only Sunday-Wed captions have a full 72hours for any votes they receive to affect Finder’s points. Captions placed on Friday or Saturday all have less than 48hours with the Saturday evening captions having only 4 hours. This means if all captions suddenly had 72hours for votes to affect Finder’s points then there would be a lot more Finders points and therefore supervotes handed out. I am aware Chris doesn’t want to hand out too many supervotes. Calculating Finder’s points at the 48hour mark for every photo would therefore probably result in the same amount of Finders points each week.
Anyway, don’t forget Sun-Tue there are plenty of Thur-Sat captions on zero that may deserve a vote that you can currently vote for without fear of lowering your Finders score.
Ah, just realised your idea is better James as there is a danger people trying to get Finders points might deliberately vote late to avoid giving Finders points to their competitors.
Yeah, I’ve never really understood the timing of Finder Points awarding, Steve. It will be good when Chris changes it to match the close of caption voting. This will make things much easier to follow and increase the dynamics of Finder Points. It may also encourage more people to play the Finder Point game.
And that’s the only reason I suggested having no new Finds after 48 hours. It would mean people like myself, and yourself, who make some early Finds but also like to vote comprehensively later, can still earn Finder Points. I’d probably make more early Finds if I knew I could still vote late for zero rated captions without ruining my Finder Points.
I think the same would also go for our regular Finders. As well as being great at getting the ball rolling, they’re also some of our most comprehensive voters, often returning to photos to vote again later. But I’m pretty sure they would avoid zero rated captions at this time, and understandably so.
No new Finds after 48 hours would allow late/return voters to vote without fear of damaging their Finder Points. In some cases, such as mine, it would actually make me more likely to make early Finds. I honestly can’t see any downside to it.
Keeping in mind, also, that there is no longer a need to have new Finds up to the last moment. Ever since the 24 hour caption entry deadline was introduced, there has been plenty of time for Finding. This would remain the case even if the proposed 48 hour new Find cut-off were introduced.
I was wrong. Last week I voted on 17 captions on zero that were created from Sun-Sat. On Sun-Mon I also voted on 9 captions that had been on zero but had been created the previous week, Thur-Sat. I thought they wouldn’t count as finds. These 9 were still counted as Finds and none of these 9 received any other votes.
. I think I just established that a first vote counts as a Find even if the caption was made in the previous week.